Posted on 04/28/2024 5:30:26 PM PDT by MtnClimber
The Catholic writer Walker Percy maintained that the continued existence and persistence of the Jews and their religion and culture was, for him, a proof for the existence of God. So the young unchurched people haven’t had the opportunity to consider that.
The Universities are behind both the Gaza talking points and the young turning their backs on G_d.
Jesus and the Church has held this country together for more that 250 years. Now that we have abandoned God we get what we sow . The morals of our nation are upside down and i don’t see us coming back, without God.
Agree. 100%.
Unchurching is behind ALL of our problems.
Modern communications increase communist “intellectuals” coordination, planning, etc.
Same thing happened in Spain after World War I, when the country’s telephone infrastructure was expanded.
In Rules for Radicals it says “the issue is never the issue”. The point being that the real issue is always marxist revolution. Everything else is a pretext to push this. These “protests” are being organized and funded by outside socialist groups. Many speakers are openly pushing Marxist propaganda. It was the same with the BLM and Occupy NY “protests”.
Deep State and its myrmidons in Big Ed are behind the rise.
That said, young’uns need to take their brains out of neutral.
Most of the pro Hamas protesters on campus aren't even students.
Good write up.
Some interesting facts.
The point I was trying to make, is that historically, the hatred for Jews is nothing new in western (Christian / European) cultures. Even in the US it was present until WWII, after which it became taboo.
Some of the VERY early settlers in the colonies were....POTUGUESE Jews who had first fled to South America, from Europe, due to the Inquisition and when the Spanish took over great swaths of South America, they fled to the North American colonies to escape the enforced INQUISITION yet again. They were NOT poor and were NOT treated badly here.
Some OF THEIR DESCENDANTS helped to finance and fight in THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION!
I goofed and left out a word in that damned Russian book which Henry Ford, Edison, and Woodrow Wilson and other such vile people LOVED and disseminated. It's actually: THE PROTOCOLS OF THE ELDERS OF ZION. Look it up...it's horrific and what Hitler later used and upped the ante on.
Massive anti-Semitism was really NOT all that widely spread ( outside of the South after the Civil War and the rise of the KKK ) in this nation.
Here's yet another historical tidbit that is not widely known now......
During and after WW I, Hungarian and German shops ( the nations we fought and beat ) and goods, made and/or sold by American citizens ( even those with German last names, whose families had been American Citizens since the colonies became America ) were attacked/closed down/had to rename certain products. What everyone now calls DANISH PASTRY is NOT in any way, shape, manner nor form Danish! It's Hungarian! But Hungarian bakeries were boycotted, anyone else selling these delicious treats were boycotted, so they had a name change...."DANISH PASTRIES" from Delceral ( I am guessing at that spelling...so forgive me; I can speak some Hungarian well, but can't spell anything much in that language ), and the prune kind are LEKVAR! Spelled that word correctly. :-)
If prior to Hitler and WW II, ALL Jews were hated, then Disraeli could NEVER have been in Parliament, NEVER been one of THE best Prime Ministers of the UK!
Even the French had Jews in the military and some of whom were officers! Look up The Dreyfus Affair!
Granted, after during and after the French Revolution, a nutty French priest, who had fed to England, wrote a pamphlet or book claiming that it was the Masons and Jews who caused the French revolution, which is utter and complete nonsense! Louis' brother was a high mucky muck in the Masons and he didn't cause it and he was NOT a Jew.
I can give more facts, but I've delved pretty far into the weeds as it is, so shall stop.
I've always LOVED history, so I know this stuff; however, most of what I posted was also once taught in school...some of it in the 5th grade!
Keep it coming.
I’m retired and love to read, and anything new and interesting I’ll gobble up.
IMHO, it was a mixed bag of nuts, but there was a large degree of Jew hatred in the US prior to WWII. Even Charles Lindbergh, FDR...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_St._Louis. We would rather just forget that.
Again, my personal analysis for whatever that is worth, there were two big events where the perceptions of Jews in the US specifically changed to their advantage:
1). Darby and the influence he had on many Christian churches (starting ~ 1860s): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Nelson_Darby. He redefined the relationship between Christians and Jews.
2). WWII after which the Holocaust and flood of stories, human rights accords, movies, books, poems, museums... put the plight of these people in the forefront of most Americans minds and the idea of any criticism became taboo.
You will find people that like, are neutral or dislike various groups everywhere. In Mexico you can find a lot of folks that dislike “Gringos,” and that varies over time in how many and how fervent this dislike is.
Regards the Jews in history, it is hard to put an exact number on it (not like you had Pew polls). You and I are using specific examples/observations to try to show a trend (inductive reasoning which is inherently inaccurate since I can bombard you with 100 examples, and you can bombard me with 100 examples).
But I would argue that it was more than just the Catholics and few examples you provided. Even the Protestants had no love for the Jews: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_Lies
Different places had varying degrees of animosity towards the Jew over time, but over all, the Christian and European cultures had historically derogatory perceptions of these people.
For example, the reason why so many Jews lived in Germany prior to the Nazis is because it was historically one of the more tolerant, permissive, and accepting nations in Europe and many Jews fled from nearly everywhere. The Germans never had an inquisition and most big cities had a Jewish quarter until the Nazi era (example): https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frankfurter_Judengasse. But just because the Germans were not persecuting the Jews like say in Spain, does not mean that they enjoyed positive perceptions by the Germans.
The hatred of Jews became near dogmatic and it wasn’t until more recent and secular times where this changed, especially in the US thanks to some theologians that turned 1,800 years upside down and WWII after which it was taboo to say anything which could be perceived as anti-Semitic.
Which brings us to the modern era, where kids ask why the Jews are looked down upon and are persecuted? This question alone shows a complete ignorance of history.
Few Jews in Germany prior to WW2.
Sorry to get specific and appear to use definitions and terminology to create an argument, but it’s needed:
https://bam.files.bbci.co.uk/bam/live/content/z94x6g8/small
Compared to most Catholic and Protestant nations, yes the Germans had some of the most Jews aside from of course, Poland.
Germany especially in more modern times but prior to the Nazi’s, was actually one of the better places for them.
Look at 1848 onward and Germany was one of the better places for them, until the Nazis came: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Germany
Today of course, that 12 year period of German history (the Nazi era) defines this more than 3,200 year old culture and people.
Less than 1% of prewar Germany population was Jewish. And yes, they were very comfortable there. The early Reform movement replaced Jerusalem in their prayer book with Berlin.
Did you know, that many of the German ideas regarding inferior people and how to deal with them actually was based on some of our work?
The Germans didn’t do much regards eugenics prior to the Nazis (they were far behind), and when they took power they actually looked towards the US where you had active eugenics programs. Also something we would rather bury in the annals of time.
On one of my trips (I love to travel) I stopped and had to snoop around where much of that was done and what the Nazis actually based some of their program on: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virginia_State_Colony_for_Epileptics_and_Feebleminded
Some of the buildings still stand to this day, I was there maybe 6 months ago.
Barely more than 1% of the population in the US is Jewish today. What’s your point?
Secondly, I have been fascinated by history of every sort all of my life and for a time, when I was a tween, Ancient Egypt, Greece, and Rome were an obsession. And since I took 4 years of Latin, in high school, I had to read a LOT of ancient texts in LATIN, some of which did cover the Jews who lived inside and outside of Rome. Were these texts biased? Maybe, maybe not.
Not every European nation stuck their Jewish population in separate places; however we know, for a fact that the word GHETTO originated in Medieval Italy, where Jews had to not only live in one walled off area, but who were also made to wear strange headgear ( the men ), clothing, and only certain colors.
Russia was as bad...Jews had to live in the PALE!
Sans iPhone and the net, JEW HATRED began to spread throughout Europe and England in the middle Middle Ages like wild fire and they were expelled from them en mass. And this WAS due to the Catholic Church!
Some Eastern European nations did allow them to stay/take them in though.
Besides the whole nonsense re "THE JEWS KILLED JESUS", the blood libel which really WAS akin to the witch hunts, the fact that by law and the Catholic Church, some Jews wound up being money lenders. The people ( kings, nobles, aristos ) who borrowed, sometimes did NOT want to repay the loans, so harassed, tried, and sometimes killed those to whom they owed money to.
Look what the King of France and his pet Pope did to the Knights Templars and THEY were Roman Catholics!
And this stuff didn't ONLY happen to Jews or the Knights Templars!
The Catholic Church and the French powers went after and killed the Cathars.
The FRENCH RELIGIOUS WARS went after and killed the Protestant Huguenots, The Austrian Queen Maria Theresa also went after Protestants and Jews.
Re America...in Colonial times, Jews were NOT reviled nor hated.
There was a Protestant hierarchy, though, which looked down upon those sects which the elites considered to be of lower class; this was also true in the UK. Read Victorian era novels and you'll see many references to "church or chapel" in a class warfare way. And to some extent, that has lasted through at least the early 2000s!
Charles Lindbergh was an AMERICAN BUND MEMBER full on NAZI!
Woodrow Wilson was a nose in the air snob who LOVED the KKK! And for all of his college degrees he was an uneducated MORON and weakling, whom the Brit and French heads destroyed/led around by the nose, in Paris, in 1919, at THE TREATY OF VERSAILLES!
I wrote only ONE anecdotal bit about food/shops during WW I; the rest of what I posted was 100% facts.
Were there some places in America, where there was JEW HATRED and separations? Yes, there were, some of which lasted until the en of the 20th-early part of the 21rst century and some pockets alive and well to this very day. But NOT at the level of where it is right now by a long shot!
And now, we ( ME ), have REALLY gotten into the weeds at mighty degree and probably bored those still on this thread, who don't care. So IF you would like to continue this discussion, we should really take it to FRmail.
LOL...of course I knew that and eugenics was also a VERY big thing with the lefty/progressive and Suffragettes in the UK; in late Victorian/Edwardian times!
Bringing this back to today and what is happening now. There is a laundry list of reasons why Israel should be getting backed.
Some of the arguments I consider and of course there are counter arguments for each:
1). Historically there is a guilt, a debt owed to these people.
2). It is with Israel with whom we have three various security agreements and a SOFA. “The United States and Israel have signed multiple bilateral defense cooperation agreements, to include: a Mutual Defense Assistance Agreement (1952); a General Security of Information Agreement (1982); a Mutual Logistics Support Agreement (1991); and a Status of Forces Agreement (1994).” (Source: https://www.state.gov/u-s-security-cooperation-with-israel/#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20and%20Israel%20have%20signed%20multiple%20bilateral%20defense,of%20Forces%20Agreement%20(1994).)
3). We (The USA and UK) helped create this nation, it's our child.
4). The Jews are their own distinct culture, and just like most other cultures (Armenians, Kurd's, Germanic, Franks, Spaniards...) they want a place which is defined by their culture and values.
5). They are the only democracy (everyone else in that region is fake), they only nation which follows some semblance of a law and respects human rights in that region. They are a liberal (traditional meaning) society which allows a high degree of freedom for its people, a Western culture (inspired by the Jews from Europe that settled there). They are literally an island surrounded by heathens and savages and most of these idiot kids protesting on these campuses today have no idea what those people who they are protesting for would do to them if given the chance.
6). The Palestinians are NOT related to the Philistines. That's a 1960s branding (marketing ploy) in order to give them the appearance of a legitimate historical right to this land.
7). Both the Israeli's and Palestinians have a legitimate argument to this land. The UK screwed this up royally with the promises they made to both. ***BUT, the only party willing to really compromise is Israel. The Palestinians have repeatedly proven that with them it is all or nothing. They make ridiculous demands and have shown zero true intent to settle this matter either by refusing to compromise or breaking any agreement made.***
This has been a persistent problem: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2002/may/23/israel3
8). While both sides play dirty, on the sliding scale, it's the Palestinians that are far worse, kidnapping people, targeting civilians, engaging in what is direct / undeniable terrorism...
One example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achille_Lauro_hijacking
They do a good job at listing the “major” attacks in Israel: https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/palestinian-terrorism
Basically, the Israelis are dealing with a terrorist psuedo-state, that attacks them constantly, is unwilling to negotiate, but because these people can play the victim card and media really well, dumb American college kids now think they are virtue signaling by protesting for the Palestinians, carrying their flags, and wearing stupid scarves because of what they feel from seeing something on CNN and in Social Media: https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Number-of-rockets-fired-at-Israel-from-the-Gaza-Strip-by-year-Sources-Ben-Sasson-Gordis_fig2_364458032 If it were us, we would have gone in and given Gaza an enema a long-long time ago. We would not tollerate this crap. To illustrate this point, imagine Texas and California were being hit 3,631 rockets in a year from Mexican cartels and gangs firing them at us, what would we do? And today, after Israel is attacked and 1,200 civilians die, we are pushing on Israel for “restraint.”
Which brings me to my last point, the changing relationship between the US and Europe with Israel.
None of the arguments we hear are genuine. The true reason for the change in course by us has to to with:
1). Changes in the US and European demographics, where the Arab and Muslim vote already has an impact / weight. We let them in. But also, if our policy makers stand behind Israel and do not make some concessions to this demographic, you are looking at potential civil unrest and terrorism, example Madrid: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Madrid_train_bombings (Spain supported us in Iraq 2003 and after this they backed off).
2). The fact that Saudi Arabia, Jordan, UAE, and Egypt have substantial political clout in DC. They lobby, but are also economically more significant to us than Israel. Many of these nations have initiatives in the US (through NGOs) to push their perspective. The true center of gravity for the US in the Middle East is Saudi Arabia. Being in pole position for Islam, on both the Persian Gulf and Red Sea, one of the most important OPEC members, and a huge spender, it is Saudi Arabia around which our Middle East policies orbit. Israel is a liability, Saudi Arabia is an asset: https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/20/us-saudi-arabia-seal-weapons-deal-worth-nearly-110-billion-as-trump-begins-visit.html One asks for US aid, the other pays billions in cash.
3). Unlike Russia where we censor like mad, blocking ~40 of their media outlets and censoring social media, with the Arab / Muslim perspective you have a over representation of their perspective. They learned to use the MSM to their advantage a long time ago. You have a lot of Arabs and Muslims in Western media, Western media represented in their world and being influenced by them (example CNN), the Arabs and Muslims have a large media footprint of their own (example Al Jazeera, Al Arabiya... a long list). Frankly, I must admit that even I sometimes go to Al Jazeera today since they report on things which our MSM refuses to do, example Azov in Ukraine since this didn't fit into our one sided narrative in support of Ukraine.
IMHO, forget the merit of any of the 8 aforementioned arguments, it's about money and power, and the tide is shifting in the Arab / Muslim direction. That is why you are seeing the US government today essentially distancing themselves from Israel, pushing Israel for restraint, even making disparaging and negative remarks and trying to influence the political system in Israel to shape things in a more Arab / Muslim positive way:
Example: https://www.timesofisrael.com/us-funds-aided-2015-campaign-to-oust-netanyahu-senate-probe-finds/ (In the Obama era we were more aggressive than today. Biden is still trying somewhat to play it both ways).
Another example: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/nancy-pelosi-says-benjamin-netanyahu-should-resign/
It is undeniable that things are beginning to change regards our support for Israel. While some may pretend it has something to do with Israels actions, the true motivation is simple money and power. We are, even if not aware of this, Machiavellian in our MO.
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